The Role Of Coaching For Your Career And Success

The Role Of Coaching For Your Career And Success

[00:00:00] Alexander: Welcome to another episode of the Effective Statistician. I’m super happy to have Alun Bedding again on the show. How are you doing, Alun? 

[00:00:10] Alun: I’m good, Alexander, and it’s good to be back on the podcast. This is my third, I think it’s my third appearance. Not as many as some, [00:00:20] but I’m glad to be back. 

[00:00:22] Alexander: Yeah, and today I’m talking to you in a very, very new position and that is you have started your own coaching business with which is really, really outstanding.

[00:00:38] How did you get [00:00:40] into coaching? What kind of brought you close to that? 

[00:00:44] Alun: Oh, that’s a great question. And I’ve explored this on other podcasts. But I can repeat it here as well. And thank you very much for, yeah, I started the, the, the coaching company early, late last year, sorry. And carried it over and to, to this year.

[00:00:59] But what [00:01:00] started me in coaching in the first place was about four years ago, maybe five years ago. I went on a leadership course within my company at the time. And that the leadership course was all about coaching those parts of it that were really heavily into coaching and I’ve got to [00:01:20] admit, I was absolutely dreadful.

[00:01:22] I’ve done some coaching when I was, I’ve done some coaching skills when I was at GSK and I thought, yeah, I can apply some of those, but did I apply them? Not at all. I was giving advice. I was yeah, I can do that for you. Why don’t I do this for you? [00:01:40] So following on from that course, I had a debrief with one of the observers for the course, and he was a coach.

[00:01:48] Alun: And he said, yeah, you need to get some coaching skills. So and by the way, he became my coach as well. So I, it’s quite an interesting connection. In fact, he [00:02:00] said, you need some coaching skills and get a coach. So I said, would you become my coach? And he said, yes. So I went on a two day coaching skills course and gotta be honest.

[00:02:11] I loved it. I loved it. It was only using the grow model, which I don’t use anymore. But it was great just to have some of those [00:02:20] coaching conversations. And so I thought I want to do more of this. So I went back and spoke to, to, to my manager within Roche and asked him, you know, can I, can I go and do the full diploma in coaching expecting the.

[00:02:35] No, because I’m not sure this is connected to the business. He actually just turned around and said, yeah, [00:02:40] what do you need? Well, I need some money. And he said, well, okay, you’ve got it. Go ahead and book. And that led me to doing the diploma with the academy of executive coaching. Incidentally, my coach, who was the person that advised me was one of my tutors as well.

[00:02:55] So he was, you know, a very instrumental part of my [00:03:00] coaching journey. And so that led me, I did the diploma finishes diploma four years ago, just over four years ago. And I, from that, I had to get practice coaching clients. I don’t call them clients anymore. Thinkers had to get these practice. People in that.

[00:03:18] So I started coaching people [00:03:20] within, within the organization and again, found I loved it. And so that just developed more and more to me looking into, well, what can I do with coaching and how can I learn to be a better coach? And so everything then moved towards just, just being [00:03:40] more. of a human coach.

[00:03:42] And so, you know, that’s where I see myself now. I’ve now got over 500 hours worth of coaching. Just applying for my professional certified coach credential with the International Coaching Federation. So I got my ACC, the associate, associated [00:04:00] associate certified coach. I got that two years ago.

[00:04:03] And that needs a hundred hours of coaching plus other things added onto it. And now I’m applying for my, my professional certified coach. Accreditation. So yeah, so that, that’s, that’s my journey. I’ve also done some team coaching qualifications as well. [00:04:20] So I’ve not just got the qualification within the individual coaching, but also within the team coaching.

[00:04:25] So yeah, this is one of the things my, my, my passion towards coaching as, as grown and grown. And starting my own coaching business, I think is, was the next step. And so that’s one of the [00:04:40] things that, yeah, I, I just wanted to do that. And I wanted to, I’ve started coaching external people and yeah, that’s led to more and more more and more insights into myself as a coach.

[00:04:52] So that’s a long winded answer there, Alexander, but I, I’m hoping that will give the listeners some idea of how I got to where I am. [00:05:00] 

[00:05:00] Alexander: Yeah. And I think it can also inspire organizations. To invest into interested people becoming a coach because as you said, you invested hundreds of hours into coaching into the organization that actually paid for it.

[00:05:19] So they [00:05:20] got lots of, lots of, lots of benefits from it back. And 

[00:05:25] Alun: I was going to say, absolutely. And Roche my, my former company have an ICF internal coaching pool. They’re not a hundred percent coaches. They do it alongside their day job, but there’s over 200 people within [00:05:40] that pool of coaches.

[00:05:41] So. Roche puts his money where his mouth is because it’s basically saying we want people to be coaches and we, we, we value coaching and a lot of this comes back to the, the, the VACC leadership, the C part, one of the C’s of VACC is obviously [00:06:00] coach. So that comes back to why Roche really, really invested in coaching.

[00:06:07] And a few years ago, the International Coaching Federation picked Roche out for some of their coaching activities. Other pharmaceutical companies have had similar sort of awards from the International Coaching Federation. What does [00:06:20] VACC stand for? Visionary Architect Catalyst and Coach. 

[00:06:26] Alexander: Cool. That’s maybe for another episode, 

[00:06:29] Alun: but that is certainly what’s led to more and more leaders becoming more coach like. 

[00:06:37] Alexander: Yeah. So in [00:06:40] terms of. Coaching. Well, you not only are coach now, you also have decades of experience as a statistician. You have led the methods group at Roche. You have published quite a lot about statistics.

[00:06:57] You have helped many, [00:07:00] many statisticians. also on the technical aspects. And so I’m pretty sure you have mentored also quite a lot of people in that regard. So what defines for you the difference between mentoring and coaching? 

[00:07:19] Alun: Great, great [00:07:20] question. And before we go on to that, I’m, yeah, one of the things I should mention, I’m not throwing away my statistics.

[00:07:26] Alexander: Yeah. 

[00:07:26] Alun: I’m, I’m, I’m carrying on helping statisticians and, and actually doing statistical consultancy alongside my coaching. So, so those two things will be become part of my portfolio [00:07:40] within my coaching company. So coming back to your question about the difference between coaching and mentoring, this is an interesting one because lots of people do not know the difference.

[00:07:50] And to some people, I mean, I, and it’s not necessarily important. And, and by the way, coaching is not better than [00:08:00] mentoring by any stretch of the imagination. They’re both supportive modalities with which people can get new insights and new thinking. I think where the difference lies is the fact that when you’re mentoring, you are sharing your experience, your expertise.[00:08:20] 

[00:08:20] When you’re a coach, you are an expert in coaching. You’re not an expert in a person’s particular field. So for example, anybody can be a coach. So I can coach, I mean, I’m a statistician, worked in the pharmaceutical industry, but I’ve coached people outside of the pharmaceutical [00:08:40] industry. So for example, I coach somebody who’s a design expert who, who, by the way, designed my logo for my, my business.

[00:08:46] I have absolutely zero idea of the design world and what goes on in the design world, but I could still coach that person because the [00:09:00] way I coach is non directive. It’s also I’m not knowing, I don’t need to be an expert within that field. Whereas in mentoring, there is more of a an expert, you know, I know something that you don’t, and therefore maybe I can share how I’ve done something in the past and see how that [00:09:20] resonates with people.

[00:09:20] So it’s, it’s, it’s more of a putting in. Whereas coaching is more of a drawing out and trying to get people to think for themselves and move on for themselves, but there’s no doubt that both of those modalities are effective. They will make effective statisticians. I’m going to use that with [00:09:40] the podcast in mind.

[00:09:42] Well They will make more effective people both together and I personally have had both a coach and a mentor and incidentally a coach mentor as well. So it’s, it’s the, the, whilst they’re misunderstood in terms of their, the the wordings of them, they’re, they’re, they’re both important [00:10:00] modalities to be used by people.

[00:10:02] Alexander: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think it is helpful to actually have both. Yeah, because for different things, you need different help. Yeah, 

[00:10:13] Alun: absolutely. Absolutely. And if most of the time a mentor is a long term [00:10:20] relationship. Whereas coaching, you might take coaching for a short period. And I would also, I would think to myself, if I’ve got a coach, I would not want a coach for maybe more than a year.

[00:10:31] And I don’t believe as a coach, you should be coaching people for more than a year in one stretch. It may be one to two years, but [00:10:40] then you need a break. From, from that particular coach and move on to a different coach, whereas a mentor might be there long term for you. And, and it might be a, certainly a different relationship, but you can also have different mentors all at the same time for specific topics.

[00:10:56] There might be different mentors you use similar thing, but for [00:11:00] coaching, there might be different coaches because you, you, you resonate better with different coaches. 

[00:11:04] Alexander: Yeah. Yeah. Completely agreed. Well, mentors, for example, can open doors for you. Yeah, absolutely. They can leverage the network, they can kind of for statisticians, for example, come up with [00:11:20] completely different insights.

[00:11:21] Yeah. Because they have more statistical knowledge, more statistical background, these kinds of things. And I’ve seen things like reverse mentoring as well. Yeah, so where a very senior executive, yeah, has a very junior statistician. [00:11:40] However, this junior statistician comes with very different insights, kind of, how it is currently.

[00:11:48] being a junior statistician in a big organization. What kind of challenges do they have in a day to day world? Because executives might be [00:12:00] completely kind of removed from that. Yeah. Their experience as being a junior statistician can be two decades old or more. Yeah. And so what was relevant then is not necessarily relevant now.

[00:12:16] Alun: I, and by the way, I completely agree with you, the reverse mentoring, [00:12:20] although I would argue it’s just mentoring. And one of the things I said earlier on is I know something you don’t know. Yeah, it’d be, let’s take, let’s take the, the, the new statistician in the industry. They’re going to come with our skills, for example, experience people like [00:12:40] myself might not know.

[00:12:40] So where do I go to, to learn my, to, to learn my R and get a mentor for R? I go to that person who’s just come to the industry and they can then warm me. That’s not, that, that’s not reverse mentoring. That’s just mentoring. 

[00:12:52] Alexander: Yeah. So 

[00:12:54] Alun: I completely see where you’re coming from with that. And I think when, When you get people that have got less experience, [00:13:00] they have that freshness of just being open to new things.

[00:13:05] And they, they can, whereas I think we get stuck in our ways when we get later into our career. So yeah, I like this idea of if you want to call it reverse mentoring, reverse mentoring, I would just call it mentoring. Yeah. I don’t think there’s ever a situation [00:13:20] where you should say, well, that person can’t be my mentor because they’re not as experienced as me.

[00:13:25] Well, they, they might be more experienced in a different sphere, a different way of thinking. So yes, completely agree with you on that. 

[00:13:36] Alexander: Go back to coaching. You [00:13:40] obviously rave about coaching. And you’ve decided to become a full time coach and you’re now running your own business 100 percent. And coaching is your predominant area where you want to help people.

[00:13:56] For you personally Why is it so [00:14:00] fulfilling to be a coach? 

[00:14:03] Alun: Why is it fulfilling? And by the way, I’m not going to be 100 percent coaching. I’m still, like I mentioned before, I’m still going to be doing some, some Cisco consulting. Yeah, but 100 percent on your own terms. Yeah, 100 percent on my own terms.

[00:14:14] Exactly. I find it fulfilling because it’s when you’re, when you’re [00:14:20] coaching somebody and you see the shifts in their, their thinking. And when you get towards the end of it, I mean, I, I reflect on a coaching session I did quite recently where I asked a very simple question at the end, you know, what have you learned about yourself during this, this session?

[00:14:39] And the person just [00:14:40] started tears and I’m like, what’s going on? And they just said, they’re tears of joy because I’ve just got some new insights and it’s seeing those new insights. I, I was in the world of not knowing. About those insights, but the part of it is seeing a person move from one position to [00:15:00] another and gaining that new insight.

[00:15:03] And then when you talk to them afterwards, you talk to them, you know, after they finish the coaching, they tell you where they’ve gone on their journey. That is so much more fulfilling. And the one thing that coaching does is it empowers people. It empowers people to [00:15:20] come up with their own. I’m not going to use the word solutions because it’s not always a solution, but come up with their own new thinking around a particular topic.

[00:15:29] And that to me is so much more fulfilling than me giving advice or saying, Oh, why don’t you do this or do that? Oh, you know, or [00:15:40] this is how I would have done it. It’s that stepping away from being the, the, the focus of the, of the conversation around that partnership between the two people. And then that other, that person, that thinker you’re working with moving towards new thinking on their own terms.[00:16:00] 

[00:16:00] And that to me is a fulfilling part of that. 

[00:16:03] Alexander: Yeah, I completely can see that. And you’ve just started also to talk about the benefits of coaching. Isn’t it? Because people will get new insights. Yeah, or new ways of looking at it [00:16:20] from their own terms. It’s not kind of forced on them. They kind of get it from themselves.

[00:16:30] And so I guess that makes it. much more powerful and also much more attractive for the people to accept it because I gained [00:16:40] the interest or these insights myself. It wasn’t kind of advice to me. 

[00:16:48] Alun: Absolutely. They do get and actually think about advice. There’s a fantastic video out there by Michael Bungay Stania on the advice monster.

[00:16:58] We all have, we all have an [00:17:00] advice monster. So, you know, you come to me and say, I don’t know, I want your fantastic advice. And I jump in there and meanwhile, you’re sitting there going. That’s not at all what I wanted whereas if you Stay curious as a coach not for your own Think your own understanding but for [00:17:20] the thinkers understanding to move the thinker forward You stay out of giving them advice because the advice at the end of the day might be wrong you don’t know that You don’t know whether the advice is right or wrong.

[00:17:32] Only the thinker knows whether it’s right or wrong. But it, it, it, it is. If we can stay away from giving [00:17:40] too much advice, then it empowers them to come up with their own thinking. You said it, their own thinking on their own terms. Their new thinking. That’s not to say as a coach you don’t challenge their thinking.

[00:17:53] You can challenge their thinking. But you’re not, you’re, you’re sticking, staying away from giving advice. And you’re [00:18:00] making them think even more. So if they come up with something that, that, that, that, that, so their, their own, their own terms, their own thinking, maybe challenge their thinking, you know, have you, have you yeah, what are the blockages?

[00:18:12] What are the things that could go wrong with this? So they’re actually carrying on that thinking. And it’s only, it’s not just in the room that that [00:18:20] happens. It is more and more that you’ll get a shift in the room with coaching, but the bigger shifts after the coaching is completed. And so after they, after they’ve come out of their coaching conversation, they’ll be doing more and more experimentation with new things.

[00:18:37] And they’ll, they’ll get more and [00:18:40] more insights as they go from the coaching room. You’re just doing it more as a catalyst to get them to think more and more. 

[00:18:48] Alexander: Yeah. I love the term ” advice monster. Yeah. And you said advice could be right or wrong. I can already hear my listener saying, [00:19:00] I will never, never give wrong advice.

[00:19:03] The problem is. You are not the person to judge that, so receiving it is a person to judge that. And so maybe you can live with that, that your advice can be helpful or not helpful. And [00:19:20] you will very often not know whether it’s helpful because you don’t have the perspectives of the people that receive the advice.

[00:19:28] That is really important. Now, there’s one other thing. Advice is very often kind of on what to do. Yeah. Now, [00:19:40] you mentioned the kind of blockers and kind of hurdles that people have. I guess that is very often not what to do, isn’t it?