In today’s episode, Benjamin and I dive into the critical issue of retaining key team members, especially now that he has earned his promotion to Global Head of Biostatistics within PBS at CYTEL.

But before we explore our main topic, let’s consider some pressing questions:

  • Are you struggling to keep your top talent engaged and committed to your team?
  • Do you understand what keeps your best employees staying or what might be driving them away?
  • As supervisors, we face the challenge of not just hiring the right talent but also retaining skilled statisticians, programmers, and data scientists we already have on our teams.

Today, we’ discuss industry turnover rates and share personal stories from our extensive careers, providing you with effective strategies for keeping your team cohesive and motivated.

Whether you’re a seasoned manager or aspiring to lead, this discussion will equip you with insights to nurture and retain your talent, enhancing both team stability and satisfaction.

Here are some more points that we discuss:

  • Retention Challenges
  • Promotion Announcement
  • Turnover Rates
  • Retention Strategies
  • Supervisor Role
  • Personal Anecdotes
  • Industry Variations
  • Organizational Culture
  • Future Challenges

Share this episode with friends and colleagues who might benefit from our conversation as well.

Remember, a well-informed supervisor fosters a stable and satisfied team. Keep tuning in, and help spread the word about these insights!

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Retention Of People: How To Keep Your Statisticians – As A Supervisor

[00:00:00] Alexander: Welcome to another episode of the Effective Statistician. Today it’s again Benjamin and myself. Hi Benjamin, how are you doing? 

[00:00:09] Benjamin: Good, [00:00:10] very good. Thanks, Alex. How are you? 

[00:00:12] Alexander: Very good. By the way, congratulations on your new role. 

[00:00:17] Benjamin: Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I’ve just, [00:00:20] just recently been announced that I’m promoted to the global head of biometrics biostatistics actually is in our, in our say in CYTEL.

[00:00:29] Benjamin: [00:00:30] So I’m really glad to have the opportunity and let’s see a lot of challenges on the way. 

[00:00:37] Alexander: Yeah, very good. And in [00:00:40] such a position, of course, there is one topic that is really, really important. And that is to retain [00:00:50] the statisticians. The programmers, the data scientists that you already have in your team. Lots of people, of course, talk about, Oh, [00:01:00] when we hire new statisticians, it’s so difficult to, to find the right ones and so on.

[00:01:05] Alexander: Yeah. can, of course, reduce the problem greatly by [00:01:10] retaining those that you have. Then you don’t get into the problem so much of open position. Of course, if you grow, then you still have get open positions. And that’s probably a [00:01:20] nice problem to have. However, retaining statisticians is is really, you know, a topic.

[00:01:27] Alexander: Yeah. What kind of numbers have you heard, [00:01:30] you know, across the industry? What, what kind of turnover rates in, in different areas of, of the [00:01:40] industry, how, how much do they vary? 

[00:01:44] Benjamin: Well, there’s there’s a big range. It’s difficult to say but could be you know something between [00:01:50] 10 and 30 usually where you have a turnover rate and It’s in at least in my experience over the last 20 years.

[00:01:57] Benjamin: I was this that it highly [00:02:00] depends on the economic situation so which you know, there’s Sometimes not much that you know impact that you individually [00:02:10] have you know if there are a lot of open positions, there’s a lot of Need demands and also then, you know, changing jobs is often very easy way of getting [00:02:20] an extra salary, you know, negotiated that is and that is in, in some you know, living situations for individuals, just the, [00:02:30] the criteria for some, you know, for some, you know, building house, if you just have something, so there’s, there’s there’s a lot of you know, external, you know, [00:02:40] Demand or external impacts on, on these numbers, but I would say in, in, in general, it’s maybe 10, [00:02:50] 15 percent turnover rate.

[00:02:52] Benjamin: Yeah. On average. 

[00:02:53] Alexander: Yeah. And of course it also depends on, on the countries. Yeah. I think there’s there’s [00:03:00] huge variation in terms of of laws, of course, in, in the different countries in terms of the speed at which you kind of leave, leave a company. So in, in the [00:03:10] US, well, very often, these are, you can count in days and in Europe very often you can count in months.

[00:03:17] Alexander: And so This is definitely a lot [00:03:20] of variation. So we will not speak about kind of exact numbers today. We want to talk more about what you as as a supervisor or as a [00:03:30] supervisor of supervisors, as an organizational leader, what you can do to retain your people. And [00:03:40] before we dive into that two things.

[00:03:42] Alexander: First, it is not about retaining people at any cost. So [00:03:50] sometimes you just notice that A certain person would be better suited for [00:04:00] something outside of your team that can have many different reasons. Maybe it’s just this person doesn’t fit with the team. Maybe it’s a person’s skill set doesn’t fit [00:04:10] with the team or maybe they have just developed so much that you as a supervisor.

[00:04:17] Alexander: You can’t offer them anything, [00:04:20] you know, that now fits their grown skill sets, their grown experience in your team anymore. Yeah. And so it’s not about retaining people at any [00:04:30] cost. So that’s, that’s one thing at the beginning. 

[00:04:33] Benjamin: Yeah, I can give more examples because this is it is, especially in a CRO, it’s about, [00:04:40] you know, there, there are limitations in terms of how much you can pay.

[00:04:43] Benjamin: I mean, there’s, there’s a range, right? So, but you, we cannot compete with Big Pharma, let’s say in a [00:04:50] way, in some ways, and also with the packages around. And that is, that is kind of a some, some like the packages or the benefits, let’s say, is [00:05:00] is something that people are looking for as well. It could be health insurances, could be car rates, could be, I don’t know, you know, whatever it is.

[00:05:08] Benjamin: And, and [00:05:10] so there’s, there’s always you know, we have had many discussions at the end and just realizing it’s by no means possible to compete with some [00:05:20] specifics that they, you know, the individual is looking for. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:05:24] Alexander: And of course it’s highly dependent also on, on personal situations. [00:05:30] Yeah. If you are young, you don’t have a family maybe you don’t even have a, have a spouse, have a partner.

[00:05:36] Alexander: And you’re super flexible. You can work wherever you are in the world. [00:05:40] Yeah. You are also really, really attractive to, to lots of people around the world. Yeah. Yeah. And you may kind of work [00:05:50] in two months at San Diego. You know, at the beach with very, very high salaries they are [00:06:00] also pretty high cost of living, I guess.

[00:06:02] Alexander: And, you know, then, then you want to maybe move to Boston and, you know, have completely different salary [00:06:10] or then to Shanghai or, or, you know, Tokyo or wherever. Yeah, 

[00:06:14] Benjamin: it is. It is. That’s why it’s, it’s like all about individual decisions and also [00:06:20] individual. Like the, the, for the managers, the supervisors actually to, to see this as an individual.

[00:06:26] Benjamin: I mean, that is one of the key. I think that is brings us [00:06:30] already to the point of where, where I believe. Retaining people actually starts is it’s a fundamental [00:06:40] one, which actually, actually, we shouldn’t be discussing this anymore is that the individuals are actually individuals and not FTEs. Yeah.

[00:06:46] Benjamin: Right. So, so the, that [00:06:50] is, that is something that I, I learned in, in many, in many ways that there could be groups that could be people that could be [00:07:00] departments are treating, I mean, counting FTEs is fine in one way. I mean, we need to do that, but treating them as [00:07:10] a, like an, like a number is just not the right way.

[00:07:13] Benjamin: Right. It’s true for working. I mean, obviously if you have individual contact and you, it’s [00:07:20] not, it’s not happening, but also as a company in general, it is a danger to not see the individuals as individuals. And that [00:07:30] actually is already the mindset, which we need to think through, because if you don’t have that, if the company doesn’t have that is we are talking, you know, against the walls at the [00:07:40] moment.

[00:07:40] Alexander: Yeah. . Yeah. And I’ve seen that where managers kind of move people around just because, oh, there’s, there’s, there’s more demand. [00:07:50] So, okay. Let’s take just five people from this group and move it over there. Yeah. To meet the minimum demand. And, and half a [00:08:00] year later, all the demand has shifted. Okay. So let’s take six from the other group and move them over here.

[00:08:06] Alexander: Yeah. And just because you [00:08:10] see, you know, you have your Excel spreadsheet in terms of, okay. Where’s the demand? Where’s the people? You know, just move, move people [00:08:20] around like FTEs, like numbers and then exit spreadsheet. 

[00:08:26] Benjamin: Yeah. And the second thought that came, [00:08:30] you know, when we brought up this, this topic is, is like it’s also very, like a very general one.

[00:08:36] Benjamin: Like a vendor general statement is if you, [00:08:40] you, you always trying to give your company like a reputation in whatever way it is. So could be like the, you know, the experts in that could be, you know, [00:08:50] the quickest, the fastest, the cheapest, whatever it is the best in class. And so the, the reputation is one thing, but are you [00:09:00] actually living it in the company?

[00:09:02] Alexander: I am. 

[00:09:03] Benjamin: If you, if you’re trying, if you’re trying to convince people to come, because you are the best statistician, you have the best [00:09:10] statistician, the best methodology experts whatsoever, you may have them, but actually is this a benefit to the people? That are joining the [00:09:20] company. So are they exposed to, to that knowledge, to that type of behavior that you, that you show yourself [00:09:30] for the outside, for the clients, for the, you know, for the patients, for whatever it is, I think, and that is, that is the crucial part because the, if you attract people to join the [00:09:40] company and they realize, Oh, it’s all a fake because it’s, you know, it’s a nice website, but actually that’s Then you can fight for reputed, for like an, like [00:09:50] retaining people as much as you want.

[00:09:52] Benjamin: It’s not what, why they came to that, to your company. So I think this, this is another just [00:10:00] general note which I realized is marketing is great, but do you actually live this in the company? So is it the culture of the [00:10:10] company? And if there’s a discrepancy, you have a bigger problem than others. 

[00:10:14] Alexander: Yeah, if you break the promises that you, that you made when [00:10:20] you hired people, yeah, then people get frustrated and Leave, or, which [00:10:30] is, I’m not sure what is actually better, they stay and are really demotivated.

[00:10:34] Alexander: They kind of quit mentally, yeah, not, not, not [00:10:40] physically, and that’s also really bad. Yeah, that’s a, that’s another way how you can lose people without [00:10:50] actually, you know, having an open position. Yeah. So when we think about this aspect of the promises you [00:11:00] made, yeah, so one thing is money, yeah, and we talked about this, so let’s take off the table.

[00:11:06] Alexander: What are other promises that we make to people [00:11:10] and reasons why they then join the companies? 

[00:11:16] Benjamin: First of all, the day to day work should be interesting to them. [00:11:20] So they should be fit. They should be aware Of what we are expecting from them to do So that is not not really like a promise in that regard, but I think it’s covering usually 80 to 90 [00:11:30] percent of the day to that that they need to Follow, I mean, you know, stats, lead role, whatever, whatever the job [00:11:40] is that the the person is joining the company for.

[00:11:44] Benjamin: So I tell, you know, my, my call usually when, when I have an [00:11:50] interview with people, I often do have first interview myself, like in an informal way. [00:12:00] Sometimes even, you know, just don’t listen to me, but now it’s before a talent acquisition is aware of it, right? So when there’s somebody interested in joining, I just [00:12:10] check it out by openly saying that is what we are looking for and trying to find out, is it actually what you are looking for?

[00:12:19] Benjamin: No. [00:12:20] So there’s usually job description out and there’s like a role explained with standard statement of what exactly it is. And, [00:12:30] and to be honest, in the, in the business that I’m in within you know, PBS, so unit based outsourcing. This is, it’s also very difficult to make this [00:12:40] so specialized that, that we can.

[00:12:43] Benjamin: identify unique experts on our need of unique experts that we could employ [00:12:50] for full time. We do have some extensions and, but usually it is very It’s a wide [00:13:00] variety types of studies of therapeutic areas of roles, interaction in groups, clients. It’s not, it’s not an FSP role, you know, it’s, it’s kind of, [00:13:10] so it’s a high variety and it’s difficult to put this into into like an expert role where you say, well, you need to do kind of, well, this is what we are looking for an expert in that and just give you [00:13:20] all expert roles in oncology.

[00:13:22] Benjamin: Yeah. 

[00:13:22] Alexander: You will only do biomarker research in oncology. What’s that? Yeah. 

[00:13:27] Benjamin: That is, I mean, it’s always excellent if we get [00:13:30] specific experts in, in fields that help us grow. And, and that is exactly the point, help [00:13:40] us grow, right? So where we where we need to, where we are promising our staff things and say, well, but you can develop into something, or you [00:13:50] can, you know, go to training, to conferences and deep dive further into specific topics that you are interested in.

[00:13:56] Benjamin: And I think that is, that is a promise [00:14:00] that we often do. I hope everyone is doing because especially I know around statisticians that the majority of statisticians is very much interested in learning more and more and more. [00:14:10] Yeah. And so we need to not only promise that and get the people hired, but actually deliver.

[00:14:17] Alexander: Yep. 

[00:14:19] Benjamin: That is the [00:14:20] responsibility of the manager of the teams is to give them the opportunity follow up on this, to allow them to [00:14:30] grow, to develop, and to actually give them also spare time. And which is difficult but Give them really allow an [00:14:40] allowance a possibility of attending trainings of attending conferences of doing Trainings maybe being an expert in something and delivering it to [00:14:50] internally and really just make them seen welcomed seen and developed as experts or even like in, in that role and [00:15:00] doesn’t need to be like an explicit expert, but just really like a delivery delivery of the promises that you make.

[00:15:07] Alexander: Yeah. I, when I think [00:15:10] about retaining people, highly motivated people, yeah. That come into the job and usually, you know, the first day you come into a job, you’re always motivated. Yeah. And you’re [00:15:20] motivated usually by three things. Mastery, autonomy, and purpose. [00:15:30] And what you just talked about is really this, this mastery aspect.

[00:15:34] Alexander: Yeah. We want to become better as statisticians, data scientists, [00:15:40] programmers. Yeah. We want to don’t want to write the same codes that we did. 10 years ago. Yeah, we don’t want to do exactly the same [00:15:50] models that we did 10 years ago. Yeah, we want to improve in terms of how we design studies. We don’t [00:16:00] usually just want to reruns the same studies that we have done again and again and again and again.

[00:16:06] Alexander: Yeah, there needs to be some, some learning. [00:16:10] And that learning is, as you said earlier, is highly variable across the different people. Some people really want to learn [00:16:20] more about the medical and therapeutic area background. Yeah, there are I’ve, I’ve seen statisticians that say, I just [00:16:30] want to work in oncology, you know, that is the area that is most interesting of me and I want to learn about all these different methods of action and, [00:16:40] you know, the various biomarkers and the new things that we can do there and and I’m also, you know, it, motivated because it is [00:16:50] oncology and maybe there’s some personal relationship to it, yeah, that maybe she or he [00:17:00] is, is a patient himself, herself, yeah, or family members had, had cancer, yeah.

[00:17:07] Alexander: So that is really important to [00:17:10] understand. For others, it’s about, I want to really hone in on my technical skills. You know, like I want to learn more about data science or [00:17:20] whatever. And yet for others, and that is also a possibility, maybe they want to become more people people people leaders, you [00:17:30] know, in terms of, they want to grow their people skills.

[00:17:35] Alexander: They want to develop potentially into supervisors. Understanding that is [00:17:40] really, really important. And then making sure that. He gives them, as much as possible, the right projects. [00:17:50] And it doesn’t mean that all the projects that they work on fit exactly that. Yeah? I’ve, I’ve one member of my team where just [00:18:00] one of the many projects he was working on was, you know, said highly motivated, motivational project.

[00:18:07] Alexander: But that was enough. Yeah. For him to [00:18:10] come to work and feel like this is not work, this is fun. Yeah. 

[00:18:14] Benjamin: I think, I think that is, that is something where, where the, the managers or the line [00:18:20] managers you know, I’m, I’m a little bit always like with super supervision is it could be also non-line managers.

[00:18:26] Benjamin: You a way. Yeah. ’cause that’s why I’m, I’m now putting this onto the line manager’s [00:18:30] role into the line manager’s shoes and then the, the line managers. have a, an enormous responsibility and this, [00:18:40] this is a little bit of a you know, like a side story is about the, the role of the line manager. So, and especially if you have a split role as a line manager, like in a, you know, you have your [00:18:50] projects and your supervision on, on people and, but you’re also line managing them.

[00:18:55] Benjamin: So that is the, the, the [00:19:00] responsibilities for the line managers is extremely important. Extremely underestimated. And what you just said about talking talking to individuals finding out what do [00:19:10] they want? What’s maybe the family? It’s the background. Is there motivation behind it? How do I can put it down and know what’s saying?

[00:19:17] Benjamin: Well phase two oncology [00:19:20] and and just keep it in mind next time there’s new phase two oncology coming And and look into this and just say and even if you don’t assign this to that person You Right because [00:19:30] it’s not available you say well, we just had one but actually, you know, you’re not available But i’m thinking of you right so I don’t forget you.

[00:19:37] Benjamin: It’s just really just keep keep it muddy. Keep it [00:19:40] motivated and The, my the fear is always a little bit so that, that you have so many competing tasks being a line manager [00:19:50] and taking care about the individuals is taking a long, a lot of time. It’s a lot of organizational work around it. It’s a lot [00:20:00] of like overview and also connection within the company to understand it.

[00:20:05] Benjamin: And is. Every, every person role and [00:20:10] position currently the right place. Or is this maybe, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier about saying maybe it’s not, maybe [00:20:20] this, the skill set here isn’t the one, but maybe it should be an FSP or should be more in a consulting role than in a, in a process oriented role.

[00:20:29] Benjamin: [00:20:30] Or is it, so, so where, where do we, is, does, do, do, do I give, or do I allow the patient or do I enable the, the the, the, [00:20:40] the individual enough. To, to actually develop as good as we could possibly offer. 

[00:20:47] Alexander: Yep. Yep. And [00:20:50] I think this is a big part of your job. And it’s a really important part. Yeah. If you put the right people into the right positions.[00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] Alexander: Yeah. That is half the job of your, you as a supervisor, you know it will make everything else easier. [00:21:10] 

[00:21:10] Benjamin: Absolutely. Especially your own life. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:21:16] Alexander: So, so I, I remember lots of discussions when I was [00:21:20] working in a international department. Yeah, we had a couple of different group leaders and, and we had a more senior manager and as a group [00:21:30] leader, since a senior manager would sit together maybe twice, twice a year, you know, to see whether all the right [00:21:40] people are all the people in the right positions.

[00:21:42] Alexander: Yeah. And then. It was also, of course, a discussion of how, [00:21:50] which therapeutic area needs more help, where, where is less, less help needed. Yeah, but it was mainly [00:22:00] about the individual people. Okay. Who do we need in which team, yeah who is best suited in [00:22:10] which team, and also is the team set up overalls and good, yeah it’s probably not a good idea to put all [00:22:20] junior people in one team and all senior people in another team or things like that, yeah where, where do you, you know, if you have.[00:22:30] 

[00:22:30] Alexander: Lack of resources. Where do you open a new position? Yeah. Does it make sense to move someone around and, you know, [00:22:40] because then, and open a position maybe in an area where you actually don’t have a need, but it would be better to move in person [00:22:50] out of this area into this other area where there is a need and open the position in the other area.

[00:22:57] Alexander: Yeah. So have these kind of [00:23:00] open discussions about where is the right person. Yeah, and here it’s of course, there needs to be a lot of good [00:23:10] teamwork on this leadership team. Yeah, that you’re willing to say, actually, my person, although he’s a star performer, I think would be [00:23:20] better in your team. If you can achieve that, then people will recognize that.

[00:23:27] Alexander: Yeah. Yeah. And. Maybe two years [00:23:30] later, they come back to you and to your team, or maybe you have moved on into a bigger role and now they become a supervisor and report to you. 

[00:23:38] Benjamin: I mean, it is, it is. [00:23:40] You know as a line manager, it’s all about the you know, not you it’s all about the others Your team because that is your responsibility [00:23:50] Right the that is how you identify Or how you classify yourself as a good line manager is if the team is if the people are happy And not [00:24:00] in that team in that role, right?

[00:24:02] Benjamin: So necessarily, I mean ideally yes, but not necessarily but as individual contributors as [00:24:10] people to, you know, that report into you. Are they, are they happy? And if it, if they say, if there’s a, you know, if they’re happy, if they’re not reporting into you, then [00:24:20] give them the opportunity. But I, you know, 

[00:24:25] Alexander: there’s one thing that I want to talk about and you mentioned FSP earlier.

[00:24:29] Alexander: [00:24:30] Yeah. No, I have been on the sponsor site. Yeah. And I had people in my team, which [00:24:40] were, you know, not within my company, yeah, but coming from a, from a zero I think as a, as a group [00:24:50] leader there, you should have a big interest to make sure that you retain these people as well. 

[00:24:58] Benjamin: I agree. I think the yes, [00:25:00] in FSP we, we have. exactly the same problems, but the responsibility is [00:25:10] more now moved into the, into the farm and to the client side. Because the, that is where the supervision and the contribution of [00:25:20] these individuals actually take place. And I, I would say, I mean, my limited experience in FSP, but I would say that it [00:25:30] is, well, in some parts it’s a split role.

[00:25:32] Benjamin: I mean, about promotions and salary, it’s, it’s then on the, you know, the employer side. But in the personal [00:25:40] development of that person, that is really something where the, the eye or the focus should be on, on, on the, on the farmer side, because they, they are [00:25:50] integrating these people into their groups, into their teams, into their projects, everything.

[00:25:57] Benjamin: And, you know, if they plan with them, [00:26:00] if they keep want to attract them, because they’re just, if they’re not happy there, then they, they will leave. And so I, I would say it’s, it’s more or less the same problem, a little [00:26:10] bit split responsibility, but the primary responsibility I would see in, in the, on the client side.

[00:26:18] Alexander: Yeah, the topic [00:26:20] is just that most of the, for example, we talked about learning. Yeah. Most of the learning happens on the job. Yeah. So of [00:26:30] course, it’s also nice to go to a conference, but how often do you realistically go to a conference? Yeah. 80, 90 percent of your training will be on the job. [00:26:40] Yeah.

[00:26:40] Alexander: Yeah. And so you need to make sure that people have the opportunity. to develop on that job. Yeah. If you always [00:26:50] give them the same tasks, and as you mentioned earlier, treat them like FTEs rather than individuals you run the risk [00:27:00] that they leave. And then, yes, then you will get a new person from the CRO.

[00:27:07] Alexander: And great. Then you need to train them [00:27:10] again. Yeah. Bring them up to speed in your area. Work with, you know, all the team dynamics and all these kinds of different things. Yeah. If you now [00:27:20] complain that your CRO can’t retain the people, well,

[00:27:24] Alexander: This, there’s only so much the line manager and the CRO can do says also [00:27:30] Yes, I see that completely the same responsibility of on the client side. Yeah. 

[00:27:36] Benjamin: Yeah. But I, I think usually my, my [00:27:40] understanding is that the, it is the, the, the, the knowledge or the, the awareness is, is there. Right, so that is I think no [00:27:50] company is trying to just you know, treat fsp people like fts even though in some in some ways

[00:27:58] Alexander: I heard people say [00:28:00] like let’s say treat people on the the contractors very, very different.

[00:28:05] Alexander: Yeah. Well, it is,

[00:28:08] Alexander: if you’re a supervisor and you [00:28:10] listen to this, yeah. And you think about how you’re treating people in your team and do you treat people in a very, [00:28:20] very differently that are in your company and that are so coming into your team from another company, from, from a CRO or as a consultant have a [00:28:30] second thought about this.

[00:28:31] Alexander: Yeah, of course, there’s different opportunities for internal people that are not available to the [00:28:40] consultants, like lots of internal trainings, personal development, and things like that. That needs to come from the CRO side, but when it’s about [00:28:50] motivation that comes from the job. That is clearly something that the CRO supervisor can’t provide, you know, [00:29:00] and it is very, very fundamental for the individuals.

[00:29:05] Benjamin: Yeah, and one last thought about the retaining, at least from my side, is [00:29:10] that retaining actually starts with the individuals. We talked now about line managers and the responsibility of the company, etc. So, which is obviously like, you know, [00:29:20] Then they need to action. However, it’s coming back to the goal setting and stuff.

[00:29:25] Benjamin: It’s, I mean, if you don’t know map, if we, you know, [00:29:30] if there’s no, interest from the individual side to actually either develop or just, you know, dive into the different [00:29:40] topics to understand where there’s room for developing or there, whether there’s a need for developing or there’s an own interest for developing, we [00:29:50] can offer whatever we want.

[00:29:50] Benjamin: It’s not going to happen. It’s not going to successfully, you know, retain you for long term and especially not with as a high motivated person. [00:30:00] So this is always you know, before and, and alongside, we need the support of the individuals. 

[00:30:07] Alexander: Yeah. And of [00:30:10] course as an individual, you need to be clear about what you want.

[00:30:15] Alexander: Yeah. You need to understand what drives you, what motivates you, [00:30:20] what skills do you want to develop? Yeah. That is really, really important.

[00:30:25] Alexander: So, we talk about that a lot on the show, yeah? [00:30:30] You need to understand your own goals, your own values, your own strengths and limitations and what you want to work on, yeah? Your supervisor probably can help you [00:30:40] find, learn about these, but ultimately, it’s your career, so make sure you enjoy it. That’s, that’s really important.[00:30:50] 

[00:30:51] Alexander: There’s one other thing that I want to shortly talk about, and that is recognition. What, what’s your view on, on that part [00:31:00] as being effective for, for retaining people? 

[00:31:05] Benjamin: I think it usually comes to short and not necessarily like [00:31:10] recognition and merit increases or increase in general. So that is, that is probably the, even the easiest [00:31:20] way of showing it.

[00:31:21] Benjamin: No, it is the, the day to day. Thank you. Right. So the day to day understanding what great job. you know, [00:31:30] that, that person is doing and I have to, you know, it’s myself, so it’s just, you know, you’re under stress, you’re busy, you’re everything, and then time is running out, and then at the end of the meeting, oh, thank you, by the [00:31:40] way.

[00:31:40] Benjamin: No, it’s, it’s very difficult, it’s, but it’s very important. It’s, you know, when you look into, into the feedback that, that individual contributors or also like [00:31:50] other people give towards their line management, it, it, they, they don’t believe you understand what they’re doing. 

[00:31:57] Alexander: Yep. Yeah. 

[00:31:59] Benjamin: And [00:32:00] very simply because of not making them aware of, Oh, you, you probably very much understand what they’re doing and you just don’t mention it because you take this as [00:32:10] granted.

[00:32:11] Benjamin: It’s granted. Yeah. So it’s there. Yeah. It’s a job. Just do it. Right. So the way we should know, actually it’s, it’s, it [00:32:20] is the job. Yes. But it, you know, it’s the recognition of it. And that is an important part to me as well. 

[00:32:26] Alexander: Yep. Yep. Yep. And [00:32:30] recognition doesn’t mean necessarily, as you said, Or you get this paycheck, or you get this bonus, or you get this financial thing.

[00:32:37] Alexander: Recognition can be, you know, [00:32:40] range from a thank you great job well done, a message to your supervisor where you highlight the person, what that [00:32:50] person has done An opportunity to, you know, go to the special conference that, you know, rarely someone goes to, you know, or attend that [00:33:00] training that, you know, where you need two days, you know, of, of work to do, you know, there’s so many ways you can [00:33:10] recognize people.

[00:33:10] Alexander: It’s not just the financial side. Okay, so there’s of course, lots of other things we could talk about in terms [00:33:20] of retaining people. In the end, it is definitely a great part of any supervisor’s job, [00:33:30] irrespective of whether people

[00:33:31] Alexander: Irrespective of whether people are in your direct line of report, yeah. So if you are [00:33:40] managing people as a, whether they are in your company or whether they are contractors, always make sure you understand the [00:33:50] different individuals and put them on the right job.

[00:33:54] Alexander: Thanks a lot for that great discussion and check out the next [00:34:00] episodes. There will be lots of, lots of further interesting things coming. And you may recognize we have now bi weekly [00:34:10] episodes. So check out also the Friday episodes that are coming out all the time. And if you love these podcast episodes, please share them [00:34:20] with your friends, your peers your supervisor, your team these are all for free and everybody can benefit from it.

[00:34:28] Alexander: Thanks so much. 

[00:34:29] Benjamin: Thank [00:34:30] you.

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